When the Plan Breaks: Trust, Pivots, and Real Leadership

What happens when projects go sideways, clients are furious, and the plan falls apart? In this episode, J Schuh and Metsy Rose welcome Kirsten Rourke, founder of Rourke Training, to talk about the realities of working in product, design, and consulting. Through stories of firefighting failed projects, navigating corporate silos, and learning to say “no” to unrealistic expectations, the conversation reveals the hidden skillset behind great work: trust, empathy, and authentic communication.

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